Talk:Tiara

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  • Just wanted to say that on the Moon Prism Box flash application on the official Sailor Moon site has the term "Thunder & Lightning Antenna" (雷電アンテナ) for Sailor Jupiter's Tiara. ~ Fighter4luv 01:27, 9 March 2007 (MST)
Is the term also used in official materials previously? --210 01:38, 9 March 2007 (MST)
Yes. In Naoko Takeuchi's Materials Collection. The same Kanji and Katakana combination are listed above the drawing of Sailor Jupiter's Tiara. ~ Fighter4luv 01:49, 9 March 2007 (MST)
Feel free to add this bit into the article if you feel like doing so. ^^ --210 01:57, 9 March 2007 (MST)
Done! ^_^ Also, In the manga Sailor Moon's 2nd Moon Tiara is used to perform "Moon Twilight Flash". ~ Fighter4luv 02:20, 9 March 2007 (MST)
Actually, in the Materials Collection it says this:
antennasy1.jpg
And Alex Glover translates that as "Antenna manipulates thunder and lighting."
Kerochan no Miko 09:04, 9 March 2007 (MST)
Yeh, The first 2 Kanji say 雷電 and the last one katakana characters are アンテナ, so it's technically the same thing. ~ Fighter4luv 18:12, 9 March 2007 (MST)
...except that there's a fairly large difference between saying "this antenna manipulates thunder and lightning" and "this is the Thunder and Lightning Antenna." One is a description, the other is a name. I haven't seen the Moon Prism Box to comment on what that says, but the Materials Collection cite isn't valid. Kerochan no Miko 19:01, 9 March 2007 (MST)

^ Well, I'd translated it as "the antenna which manipulates thunder and lighting", hence it can still be regarded as a name, but I'm neutral on the other stuff discussed so far. --210 19:11, 9 March 2007 (MST)

That may be what it's called, but it's not necessarily the proper name of the item. Kerochan no Miko 19:13, 9 March 2007 (MST)
What I pointed out is just that it's still a name. I'm neutral on whether it's a proper one or not. --210 19:41, 9 March 2007 (MST)
Actually, that doesn't sound like a title or name whatsoever. It seems to jsut be describing what the antenna can do or does do. If Naoko wanted to call it something similar, it'd be "雷電あやつるアンテナ" which roughly means "Lightning-manipulating antenna" as opposed to "雷電をあやつるアンテナ" which means "Antenna that manipulated lightning." The latter describes something and does not name it. Dosei No Senshi 19:55, 9 March 2007 (MST)
Your translation "Antenna that manipulated lightning" is similar to mine above ("the antenna which manipulates thunder and lighting"). It certainly can describe what it does, but it's still a name, not the above descriptive statement "this antenna manipulates thunder and lightning" in grammatical sense (which has been what I mean from the beginning), even if it's not a formal/official name (on which I've no opinion). Perhaps I could use "noun clause" (?) to describe the former translations - we literally call it "name clause" in Chinese. lol --210 20:31, 9 March 2007 (MST)
Perhaps this is just another situation where translations aren't meshing. What we have here is a description and a name. One of which we would use for, say, an article title, the other we wouldn't. If you don't have an opinion, as you've repeatedly stated despite continuing to argue about not having an opinion, and Dosei and I agree that this is a description and not a name, it looks like it's been voted out of the article. Kerochan no Miko 20:40, 9 March 2007 (MST)
Okay, 210, what you just said makes very little sense. I don't understand it.
Of course my translation pretty much matches yours because I wasn't trying to point out an error intranslation! I was pointing out that if Naoko specifically wanted to call the antenna something, it would not be how she described it. The only thing really named in that phrase is antenna, which only reaffirms that the object is indeed an antenna. The rest is just telling the reader about it.
Now, I'm not familiar with Chinese besides the facts that it has the same word order as English and "xie xie ni," but I'm fairly certain that a name and description are not always the same. I can say, "It is slimy, green, and rancid with the ability to fly." That would be a description. Not once do I give the name of what I'm talking about nor is that entire sentence a name of any sort. Saying an item is a lightning-manipulating antenna doesn't name it besides saying it's an antenna. Heck, the item could still be called something completely different, like, "Nooka". The description means nothing to its name in that case.Dosei No Senshi 21:03, 9 March 2007 (MST)
How about just calling it a "mini-lightning rod?" -- DENelson83 21:09, 9 March 2007 (MST)
Because it's called the Thunder and Lightning Antenna.Dosei No Senshi 21:13, 9 March 2007 (MST)
Here is a screen cap I took from the Moon Prism Box that has the name of Jupiter's tiara antenna: Link ~ Fighter4luv 02:35, 10 March 2007 (MST)

Ok, I'm trying to make it short:

  • Kerochan, if you're still not knowing on which bit I've an opinion & on which bit I don't, as I repeatedly stated, what I can suggest is to reread my comments above. Won't repeat now.
  • Dosei, maybe I didn't expressed it well enough for your understanding, but it's not the main argument (i.e. whether the Materials Collection term mentioned by Fighter4luv is valid) here. I was just providing my understanding/info bit concerning the Japanese words posted above by Kerochan. BTW, I followed Alex Glover's wordings (even I didn't totally agree) because I didn't want to distract from my point - actually the word "thunder" isn't needed, as in your translation. ^^
  • DEN, the name you suggested is cute. lol
  • Fighter4luv, nice find!

--210 03:40, 10 March 2007 (MST)

210, the problem is that your arguments don't make sense. I've read them multiple times and I have no clue what you're trying to say. I checked with Dosei and he agreed, so it's not just me.
Also, I've already seen the Prism Box thing, and that's why I changed the wording in the article to what it currently is. Kerochan no Miko 05:14, 10 March 2007 (MST)
210, you said that a description was a name. That's wrong, and I was trying to point that out to you. Everything I was saying had nothing to do with how we were going to translate the Japanese.
And what Denelson suggested is all fine and dandy, but it's not the name of the object. Dosei No Senshi 06:32, 10 March 2007 (MST)

Kerochan, never mind. I've never considered my argument as the main one here from the start - it's just my tidbit about that Materials Collection term. And yeah, of course I knew that you'd seen it when you did the edit. ^^

Dosei, I knew you're not talking about translation. I was only switching the discussion in my last comment (hence the "BTW" word), since I considered the name/description discussion closed. BTW, I think DEN could be a good dub screenwriter (naming dept.).

--210 23:49, 10 March 2007 (MST)

You know, I don't think you even know what you're talking about at this point. Dosei No Senshi 03:23, 11 March 2007 (MST)
How do you know whether I know what I'm talking or not? You're a worm in my stomach? j/k Anyway, I've never expected this intended-to-be sideline point I made would even eclipse the original discussion, & it seems to become meaningless now, so I think it's time to close it. --210 06:24, 11 March 2007 (MST)
And again, I have no idea what you're talking about, 210, because what you're saying doesn't make very much sense. Also, the best way to end a discussion is to just stop posting arguments, rather than informing people that the discussion is over. Kerochan no Miko 09:38, 11 March 2007 (MST)
I "informed"/suggested that just as a convenience after I expressed my view about this discussion to Dosei. I don't know your having "no idea" reflects any misunderstandings of my intention/position in this discussion, so, just in case, I'm clearing up my position in this discussion here, & won't post again on this matter whether you get it or still not:
(1) I'm pretty much satisfied w/ the current state of the article.
(2) This discussion doesn't concern w/ site rules/policies.
(3) I gave the more accurate translation & made a point basing on it just for interest.
--210 18:31, 11 March 2007 (MST)
Still not understanding what you're trying to say. Dosei No Senshi 21:03, 11 March 2007 (MST)
Second what Dosei said. Kerochan no Miko 23:14, 11 March 2007 (MST)