Talk:Sailor Cosmos

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Regarding the Light of Hope. Should she really be mentioned here? She's never actually said to be Sailor Cosmos and while I feel her shape was probably based on Cosmos' I don't think one can draw the conclusion that she IS Sailor Cosmos. I'd much rather mention her as resembling Cosmos and that this leads many fans (but not all) to conclude that she is Cosmos this is not confirmed or denied by canon. GracieLizzie 02:40, 26 June 2006 (MST)

Yeah... Really, as far as I'm concerned, Sailor Cosmos only exists in the manga. The theories that she's also the Light of Hope in the anime are interesting, but they are just theories. I'd reccommend keeping the anime info, but rewording it and sticking it in a 'Notes' section, labelling it as a fan theory rather than fact. Dooky 07:56, 26 June 2006 (MST)
I re-edited the page and made the notes as such. :) - The Nani Mouse
Thank you! 10:48, 26 June 2006 (MST)
I think Ms. Takeuchi even went as far as to say that how much she wished she could have seen Sailor Cosmos in the anime. WaterKnight 18:25, 30 December 2007 (MST)
So Sailor Cosmos could likely be in the next anime series, if any. --210 22:56, 30 December 2007 (MST)
Well, her, yeah, and maybe even the Sailor Quartet, as well as Phobos and Deimos's human forms. I always wanted to see more development for Phobos and Deimos. WaterKnight 03:44, 1 January 2008 (MST)
Also the other Senshi's "Eternal" forms - in a word, manga stuff that didn't make it into the anime. --210 05:21, 1 January 2008 (MST)

Just wanted to mention how great a page this is! Very good information and very clear on what is speculation and what we really know.  :) I am going to take a stab at the Sailor Chaos page I think...--Sakky 18:25, 14 October 2006 (MST)

Ooh, just a little random trivia here. Sailor Chaos is considered the "ultimate" evil in the universe and Sailor Cosmos can be considered one of the most powerful senshi in the universe (albeit with her weaknesses). There's a contrast between the two names: Cosmos means order in Greek and Chaos is well, chaos. WaterKnight 21:25, 29 December 2007 (MST)

I think this could make an interesting trivia note - just don't say Takeuchi had this in mind unless it's officially stated. lol On another note, in Chinese mythology, the universe was in chaos at the very beginning, & order emerged only later. --210 22:34, 29 December 2007 (MST)

Voice Actor[edit]

Does anyone know who provided voice for Light of Hope/Cosmos in anime? Or at least where to find that information. (This unsigned comment was left by Cookies' Duck, December 29, 2009)

ISTR it was Kotono Mitsuishi, the voice actress for Usagi/Sailor Moon and Chibi Chibi --Silver 12:03, 29 December 2009 (MST)
It was - there's no reason for them to get a different voice actress, and I just checked and that's definitely Mitsuishi's voice. Kerochan no Miko 12:39, 29 December 2009 (MST)

SM ultimate form and its true form[edit]

Sailor Cosmos is full of questions and... less of answers. Naoko intended to make her enigmatic being (even to herself) and she succeeded, as alleged ultimate future form of Sailor Moon is intriguing and, well, somewhat more interesting and less plain (but still plain, though) than SM. There are maybe some contradictions that can be expressed even with our extremely limited knowledge about her (like time paradox, which is a severe issue, as it's not clear whether SM would win w/o Chibi Chibi helping there, which is actually necessity for proper time continuity), but let's leave it for now. Notice a few facts:

  • SC cannot be descendant of SM as she states that she remembers the battle in cauldron, so she's some future version or reincarnation of SM,
  • SC is really powerful, as she can travel through the time, can "rule" Sailor Quartet beings (sends them back to places they belong at the end), etc.
    (My hypothesis is that she may be even able to use some powers of Cosmos Crystal [name hint], which is surely capable of more than its lambda power and that this ultimate force is possibly the only thing out of SC reach and requiring Guardian Cosmos to unleash it; to some extent it looks a bit like SC is above all of it, even lambda.
  • Sailor Chaos was unbelievably powerful - SC calls her "the mightiest enemy" and states that "battle techniques weren't developed enough to even stand a chance" against Chaos. She speaks in plural, so SC couldn't be all alone back then (lol, in her "past" which happens in future, should I say: forward then?).
  • SC, after all the fights with Sailor Chaos, is mentally exhausted and weakened (was possibly physically too, but rested in Chibi Chibi form). Therefore after losing the war she retreated from her distant future to try to find the "solution" in the past.
    (She's actually deceiving herself, because deep in the heart, despite the regrets that allegedly finally convince her to "set things straight this time", she knew that the chosen path was right, which she admits, thus implicitly stating that real reason of coming back to 20th century was looking at devoted and strong herself full of hope and courage; SC knew she won't change SM mind, so it's also like she wanted to one more time reassure herself about chosen path from different perspective)
It looks my introduction ended longer than it should (maybe I should turn it one day into separate article with short analysis of her?). Ad rem. In article there is this sentence:
She stated that the Eternal Sailor Moon who had saved the galaxy was, in fact, the true form of Sailor Cosmos, and that once she had that same courage and strength, only then would she truly be Sailor Cosmos.
which sounds a bit wrong. According to Miss Dream translation (shinsōban edition, last act) SC states that _now_ Eternal SM, the galaxy rescuer, is the new SC. Moreover, the speaking one SC (the one from the future) will take her place and become the true SC when she'll have "the courage to stand on my own, to accept my fate". It may look like nitpicking over subtleties, but when there is not much material to use, it must be used very carefully. "True form" is undoubtedly vague term and can be understood in different ways. I'm not sure what would be the best way to rephrase the sentence as it's not 100% sure what SC really intended to say there. That's why I created this entry in discussion. True form rather just refers to the state of sailor's heart, after all SC speaks earlier: "I am no match for Eternal SM ultimate strength and courage". The real issue is with the replacing part, though. It's presumably said figuratively, but still...

(Takeuchi possibly really didn't thought it out well, so maybe there is no point in discussing it further? I would happily read some 2-3 new volumes e.g. reaching the same point, i.e. leaving BSSM open, but from the future PoV, so with events [maybe even fast-forwarded] leading Neo-Queen Serenity to become Sailor Cosmos and later her defeat and escape.) --Przemoc 10:39, 20 September 2011 (MST)

I honestly don't know what you're trying to say here. Speculation is not allowed in articles on this wiki, and talk pages aren't meant for character discussion, so is there something that you're suggesting should be changed in the article as it exists? Kerochan no Miko 10:56, 20 September 2011 (MST)
Sorry for too long entry then. Thought we're more open here in finding perfect articles. Most part of my text wasn't speculation, but summing up known facts related to SC, that are not clearly stated in the article. Well, the main issue raised is the quoted sentence, which, as I explained, is different from what is told in the manga (at least according to Miss Dream translation, which is considered a faithful one; we may wait also for English rerelease (allegedly supervised by Naoko and meant to be more carefully translated) reaching last act; BTW personally I don't own English copy, only Polish one (which is far from being a good one, as it was the second manga released in Poland) and have Miss Dream English translation obviously). --Przemoc 11:32, 20 September 2011 (MST)
Perhaps you consider the Miss Dream translation a "faithful" one but it isn't the Word of God or anything. And I still don't understand what your point is; are you trying to discuss the fan translation or suggesting a change to the article? If the latter, please spell out exactly what you think should be changed. Kerochan no Miko 14:22, 20 September 2011 (MST)

Kerochan no Miko, I think I got Przemoc's main point. Here's the sentence from the article that seems to be the problem:

"but it was unclear whether Sailor Cosmos was the future self of the current Sailor Moon (thus making her the next incarnation after Neo-Queen Serenity), a reincarnation of the current Sailor Moon, a descendant of the current Sailor Moon, or even Sailor Moon from an alternate future."

I believe the main issue is this specific phrase: "descendant of the current Sailor Moon". Indeed, while Sailor Cosmos can be a lot of things, depending on how you interpret it, she cannot logically be a descendant of the current Sailor Moon. Not with the information we have anyway. Why? Well, Like Przemoc said: Because Sailor Cosmos says that she remembers the battle in the Galaxy Cauldron. Sailor Moon did not have any descendant of hers battling with her at the Cauldron. She was alone at this point. Even Sailor Chibi Moon, her only known descendant had cease to exist at this point. I believe if anything, we at least know that there is a far more direct connection between the current Sailor Moon and Sailor Cosmos who is from "the" or rather "a" future, than a simple "descendant-ancestor" type of relationship. Whether Sailor Cosmos is Sailor Moon from this future, from an alternate future or even, is a reincarnation of her; now that is totally left ambiguous as it was meant to be. However, either way you put it, it is still made clear that Sailor Moon and Sailor Cosmos are basically, more or less the same person at some point, in a way or another, from different time lines and not that one is the ancestor of the other like that part of the article seems to suggest.

  • Basically what I mean here is:

- a reincarnation, a future self or a future self from an alternate future is at some point, still the same person as the one in question.

whereas

- a descendant is an entirely different person who just so happens to be related by blood to the one is question.

The word itself, "descendant" would imply that Sailor Moon had a daughter other than Sailor Chibi Moon who eventually became Sailor Cosmos. Not only does this makes no sense given the way the story is told, there is also not a single piece of evidence that tends to point to that possibility. Even if it is presented as just a theory like the others, it is still too unlikely, based on the information we have.

Therefore, I officially suggest that this specific phrase: "descendant of the current Sailor Moon" be removed from the article, because nothing in canon information tends to support that hypothesis and the little information that is actually given goes against it. The word descendent is the main issue here. Clear enough? I hope so... -- Sailor Simon 4:00, 12 January 2012 (EST)

Your entire suggestion is based on your own speculation and hypothesis, however. In the Sailor Moon universe the timeline is constantly shifting and changing, and there's always the possibility that line was translated oddly to begin with, so no, that line isn't any kind of incontrovertible proof of anything. I don't see a problem with the article as it currently stands, because we really don't know what she means or just who Sailor Cosmos is. The word "descendant" simply means that Cosmos could be a daughter/granddaughter/great-granddaughter of Sailor Chibi Moon, not that Sailor Moon had two kids. Kerochan no Miko 09:07, 12 January 2012 (MST)
Did you even bother actually reading what I wrote, I mean seriously: I remember the battle here. She says word for word that she remembers the battle at the Cauldron meaning that she was there. You can't remember something you weren't there for, something you didn't live yourself. It's not like she said I remember being told of my ancestor who fought at the battle of the Cauldron. Was any descendant of Sailor Moon present at the Galaxy Cauldron? No. Conclusion, logically she is not some descendant of Sailor Moon. How is that speculation? But of course, if you have a better translation who counters my affirmation, please submit it. -- Sailor Simon 18:38, 12 January 2012 (EST)
I did. Did you read what I wrote? Once again, your interpretation of a scene is not inherently better than another's interpretation of a scene. That sentence is saying that we basically don't know what Cosmos was talking about, which is true no matter what. Kerochan no Miko 16:59, 12 January 2012 (MST)
...hum, Okay then.-- Sailor Simon 22:35, 12 January 2012 (EST)
I agree with Sailorsimon. No where else in the fandom do we have people disputing what the characters say to this extent. This has been translated at least 3 times now by reputable translators, and she says the same thing in every translation. As far as her being a descendant goes, there's nothing to interpret. (This unsigned comment was left by 108.44.55.101, 21 February 2014)

Does anybody have a source for Naoko Takeuchi implying that Cosmos' identity was meant to be ambiguous? I have always read this, but I have never once seen a source for when she said this. She was asked point blank at SDCC who she is and gave a fairly definite if interpretable reply, so I am interested in seeing this oft-mentioned sentiment sourced. (This unsigned comment was left by 108.44.55.101, 21 February 2014)

This is really not a can of worms I want re-opened here, tbh. I also note that anything in Smile magazine, or anything at all associated with Mixx, is not a reliable translation, given how iffy their publications were. Kerochan no Miko (talk) 00:04, 29 December 2020 (EST)